Michael Ceely Podcast
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Shawn Buttner: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast. This week we're highlighting a episode that I was on Mike Seeley's Sports Psychology podcast. And if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you might be familiar with Michael Seely. If not, we've had wonderful conversations about mindset and how to really apply the athletic.
Shawn Buttner: Performance mindset to anything you're doing in life. But in this episode, he's interviewing me to learn about high performance coaching and exploring my philosophy of joy, growth, and impact. So it's a really great conversation. So great. I wanted to highlight it this week for y'all. Um, and if you liked this episode or you enjoyed this show, you might also like Mike Seeley's show.
Shawn Buttner: So [00:01:00] in the show notes below, you can find his podcast and I highly recommend you go and subscribe to it because, It's pretty dang amazing. So without further ado, here is my interview with Michael Sealy or Mike Sealy interviewing me or however that works out. But enjoy this episode and we will talk to you guys in a little bit.
Shawn Buttner: Okay. Welcome to the podcast. I'm super excited today to have my guest, Shawn Buttner on the show. He's a good personal friend of mine. He's a great coach. I turned to him for advice. He's got a great perspective and really always good to talk with him. We're gonna start out today by talking about, certified high performance coaching, which is what Sean does.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Shawn, welcome to the podcast.
Shawn Buttner: Thank you for having me, Michael. It's really an honor to be here. As
Michael Ceely, MFT: always. As always, yes. It's always a pleasure to talking with you. we speak on a regular basis and always enjoy your insights and I think you add a lot of value to my [00:02:00] life. So I want to share that with the folks out there.
Michael Ceely, MFT: tell us about, high performance coaching, specifically the certified. High performance coaching certification of the program. I don't think a lot of people know too much about it. I'm a fan of it, but explain to the viewers and listeners what
Shawn Buttner: that is. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. certified high performance coaching is a science-based process,
Shawn Buttner: it's research backed results getting essentially, So there's a process that helps people beat whatever normal in their life. Without damaging their health and relationships along the way. So if you've ever known anyone or you've been the person that has achieved all your dreams and felt miserable while you did it, it's probably because there were some type of unsustainable habits or practices that you focused so much on work that you neglected your spouse and now that's a mess.
Shawn Buttner: Or you would skip lunches and workouts and now your health's a mess. So that's generally what [00:03:00] high performance is getting after, and really chasing that feeling of joy, of confidence, of, exuberance in, in life from living into your best self. So there's a lot of finding your authentic way through life and doubling down on what that is for yourself.
Michael Ceely, MFT: I love it. That's great. So it's, it sounds like it's like a holistic approach to the, to life, like noticing that you have these kind of domains of your life and if one of 'em is off, it's gonna affect your overall joy and also what I'm hearing you say is like, Paying attention to your feelings and emotions, like it's, they're gonna tell you like the truth is gonna come out.
Michael Ceely, MFT: If you're working at a job that you're really miserable at and you're trying to convince yourself that, yeah, it's great. Or if there's an issue somewhere in relationship and you're in denial, that's gonna show up just in your overall mood. there's gonna be signs that something's off, right?
Shawn Buttner: Definitely [00:04:00] there's always a sign, and as you pointed out, it is holistic. a lot of times if you're struggling with your productivity and effectiveness at work, it's those things. Other areas, your health, your relationships, your personal life or your general like wellness that are impacting it.
Shawn Buttner: If you are really struggling in your relationships, it could just be that work got really hard all of a sudden cuz half the team got fired, you're overwhelmed. And so it, it's. Being aware of those moments and also making the most of it, like there's a phrase that we share a lot called Honor the Struggle.
Shawn Buttner: And it, it's not that you're always going to be happy and confident, but high performers are really skilled at not dwelling in those types of situations. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, you're doing things to get you back on track. If you're feeling like it, it's too much or that, Maybe you don't feel capable, you're gonna go out and acquire those [00:05:00] skills and do the work to make sure that you can follow through and do what you gotta do.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Got it. So it's not that you're never gonna feel overwhelmed ever again. You're not have this perfect Buddhist through your program, but it's, no, it's more of just noticing that, when you do feel that overwhelmed, which is inevitable from time to time, is that you have, actions that you can take that are queued up.
Michael Ceely, MFT: here's my plan for when things are tough, when there's the struggle. So honoring the struggle is there's always something to do in the good times and the bad times, and taking some positive actions. Yeah.
Shawn Buttner: Absolutely. we as a program believe in the agency of people, and my personal belief as a coach is that I've coached, dozens of folks over the years is we often discount the amount of control we have in a situation.
Shawn Buttner: And so a really great reason to hire a coach is to help you figure out. Those actions. So sometimes when you're in it, it's, you just can't see it. Sometimes [00:06:00] you can see what the actions you have to take, but you're afraid to make that jump and having someone guide you through to be like, no, it's gonna be okay.
Shawn Buttner: Let's go through all the things that could go wrong. What are you gonna do about it? And that's address that fear behind it or that's addressed that, that clarity, a aspect
Michael Ceely, MFT: to get you back on track. So really the coach is like your outside eyes or a perspective outside of yourself because when you're in it, you may be feeling all these emotions cuz we're human, right?
Michael Ceely, MFT: So it's if you're feeling overwhelmed or discouraged, You may not be able to see some of the solutions, or like you said, you see the solutions, but the fear is keeping you from taking action so a coach can say, Hey, here's how you can get out of it, because the coach is not feeling those intense emotions, has that rational mind and has your best interest at heart and has the experience.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Working with a lot of people to say, Hey, here's your prescription, here's what you need to do. I got you. Of [00:07:00] course. Always checking in with that person, if that makes sense. And I wonder, do you have a, an intuitive sense, and I know I feel this as a therapist and as a coach of just listening to someone's words, hearing their story, and just getting this real clear, almost like an intuitive message of this person needs to hear these words from me.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Do you get that Sometimes?
Shawn Buttner: I do,I'm always, again, listening for agency. hey, I'm having a lot of tr trouble at work and this one person on my team is making my life miserable. It, we all can relate to that. I've been in that situation. And the agency or the problem there is that you're not taking responsibility for your role in there.
Shawn Buttner: And I know that's a little forward to say on a podcast and out of context too, but, it takes two people to be in a relationship, work relationship, personal relationship. So what can you do to make that relationship? Im improve, so I'm always listening for agency. I'm always listening for confidence. [00:08:00] A lot of the work that I do, I've helped like educators and therapists start their own business and a lot of it is I don't know if I could be a business person.
Shawn Buttner: And it's what are you really worried about? you can meet with people you. Add value, you're helping people like just have to complete that circle of, here's the checkout page, let me, pay me for my services or what that might be. But it's a, I don't think I can assume this role or I don't know if I have this skill to be successful here.
Shawn Buttner: and so helping people work through that confidence part of. What holds them back a lot of times. another thing that I really love to listen for is how excited people are, right? if. For me, the, I have this personal, flag and I, this is why I look forward in my coaching. When you feel dreaded about something, when you are, ah, it's Monday, I don't wanna go to work.
Shawn Buttner: That's [00:09:00] a call to action to change something, right? Something's not going right in your life, and that's either how you're thinking about the situation. It's either maybe that situation isn't the best for you in that moment. There's a whole bunch of different paths that could go down, but that's a call to action.
Shawn Buttner: So when people have that sense of dread, like that's a really good place to dig in and explore. and especially like you had mentioned with a coach who's looking out for your best interest, because I think that relationship too is really special because unlike a family member or maybe a mentor in an organization, they're really.
Shawn Buttner: Isn't an agenda other than for you to, feel more confident, to feel more joy, happiness and overall wellness in your life. So if that's the focus, and that's really another great reason to work with the coach, but So those are, yeah, those are the three things that I look for.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Yeah, I love that. It's like really the philosophy of a call to action, right? Because so many people, and myself [00:10:00] included, probably you too, where you can get stuck. You're like, oh, I'm dreading this, or there's this task you have to do, a person you need to talk to or sort something out or do your taxes or whatever it is.
Michael Ceely, MFT: It's there's a feeling that comes up and so I, I love that. So it's like every feeling really can be a call to action so that if you're feeling an overwhelmed, okay, what's my action? It's not to continue to feel overwhelmed or put it off or self sooth or go out drinking or something like that.
Michael Ceely, MFT: it's more of okay, I need to talk with somebody. I need to talk to my best friend and sort this out. How am I feeling? I need to get some clarity. I need to take maybe a couple of small actions. Maybe I can look at some jobs out there or polish up my resume. But like always taking some sort of a positive action, is great.
Michael Ceely, MFT: I love that for, just your philosophy and how the certified high performance coaching works. It's very action oriented and focusing on personal power and agency, so That's awesome. I love it. I, I was looking at your website and you [00:11:00] have this, I guess it's like a tagline, which is, joy, growth and impact.
Michael Ceely, MFT: And I know you're a really optimistic, positive person, so that makes sense that you would choose those words, but I wanna hear from you like, what is, what does that mean to you, and why did you choose those three words?
Shawn Buttner: It, I believe. In general as just a general framework for what people want. It's that people are generally seeking more happiness, more progress in their life, and they want to matter,
Shawn Buttner: and those particular words, I guess were drilled in the me growing up, so my parents. we're really great at taking really tough situations and making jokes about it and just taking the seriousness out of it. my mom had breast cancer when I was in like kindergarten, so this is like late eighties.
Shawn Buttner: So like the treatments are much harsher then than they are now. technologies improved so much, she's making jokes about her hair [00:12:00] falling out and would, make jokes about. Staying with our grandparents and stuff, while she was doing the chemo treatment and really sick.
Shawn Buttner: and so that philosophy, my, my dad's the same way, but like the philosophy of if it's intense, you can find the funny in it to make it a little bit lighter and a little bit more manageable. Yeah. so I have a lot of memories like that growing up of, oh, family has a financial crisis.
Shawn Buttner: okay, we'll just. find a way to, to look back and laugh at it essentially was one of the phrases my mom used a lot. So I really do believe that going back to that personal agency, if there's something in your life that you are not super enthused about, there usually is a way for you to find the levity, the humor, the fun in it.
Shawn Buttner: those could all be different angles to that level of happiness, but it can help it. Help you cope with it as you're working through it, right? It's not to [00:13:00] just paste over it with happiness, but, a as a way to, to manage it going forward. growth. my, dad was always, I.
Shawn Buttner: Instilled in me and my brother. Like he growing up, he was a, construction worker, contractor, like handyman. And so he was like, whatever. I don't care what you do, what you guys do, but whatever you do, give it your all when you're doing it, don't slack off. And,and so he was really supportive it with me being interested in computers, even though he had no clue into that growing up.
Shawn Buttner: But as long as I was giving it my all and, showing up for it, he, he was super supportive and what that gave me was this really weird career trajectory that we can get into here in a little bit. So I'll tease that a little bit, but that experience growing up led to a lot of really good things in my adult life.
Shawn Buttner: and I think too, that when people are most unhappy in their lives, It's when they don't feel that growth, right? [00:14:00] When you've plateaued in your career, when the relationship isn't fun as it was when you first started it, you're in a maintenance thing, a little bit of that sparks gone.
Shawn Buttner: and that's just because it's in maintenance mode. It's not progressing, it's not growing, it's not getting deeper. that's why I think it's really important in my business to, to focus on that growth aspect and then impact, I feel like, There's so much we do that we do for ourselves and our families and that can have an impact to provide for the kids to have the roof over your head to, be a responsible citizen out in the world.
Shawn Buttner: so tho that's impactful. But it's also when you are working, when you are. Doing your craft, your passion, you wanna know that it's helping other people. there's a lot of research that shows that those acts of service are a component of lifelong happiness. and, but I've always, and I was recently moving my dad out of his house and I found these little like [00:15:00] books that I made in like grade school of what my life's gonna be over.
Shawn Buttner: And so in fourth grade I'm like, I just want a life that helps people, And it's leaving and then it's really weird to go through that and be like, oh, I guess it started that, this is why I'm a coach, is I just wanna help people. And and helping people is just having an impact with, oh, you need help shopping onions cause we're all having a group dinner, or, Hey, we need to go do this fundraiser to solve this community problem.
Shawn Buttner: Like that sense of impact. I think is super important. That's why it's important to me. That's why it's important to my business is it's that happiness component.
Michael Ceely, MFT: That's awesome. So way back in fourth grade, that's a really cool story. So you're finding these little mementos of oh, I guess I was thinking this way, all the way back then.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Yeah. So it's the joy, growth in the impact. So you gotta be joyful, like you said, even you can, having that sense of humor I think is. Is really like a lot of agency, Of taking control with some humor. I'm not gonna let the situation bum me out. that [00:16:00] can be helpful.
Michael Ceely, MFT: The growth, you always, you're gonna get bored if you're not growing, right? Even if it's hard, you ultimately get more satisfaction out of the growth and then the impact, it just feels better to impact people in a positive way. And I think that we don't really, realize how much of an impact we have on people on a daily basis.
Michael Ceely, MFT: A quick story here, I was, cuz we both love coffee, right? So I was getting, coffee the other day and I was sitting with a friend and my coffee got cold and I was like, oh man, like I don't wanna ask for a refill. it'll be complicated. I went up to the counter and the barista's I'll just get you a new cup.
Michael Ceely, MFT: and she gave me a brand new cup of coffee. And for her, she's just kinda hey, take an easy walk away. But I was, that like made my day, like how refreshing was that? So my point being here is like we impact people on a daily basis either positively or negatively. And we a lot of times don't realize that.
Michael Ceely, MFT: So I love that. The joy, growth impact. That's,that's a great, moniker philosophy there. So I wanna dive into [00:17:00] your story. I know your story, but, viewers and listeners don't necessarily know your story. It's a very interesting one. It starts from a computer background and there's a trajectory there.
Michael Ceely, MFT: you were working at Walmart as a software engineer, and you've worked at Apple. So tell us, I guess basically how you got into, software engineering, how you got this job, and then how you came to be a certified high performance coach.
Shawn Buttner: Right on. Yeah, so it actually starts before that Walmart job.
Shawn Buttner: So I went to school for management and I have a master's degree in information system, which is the management side of technology. Okay. But going back to what, I was talking about with my dad was just give a hundred percent to whatever you're interested in. I had been tinkering with computers since I was like eight years old.
Shawn Buttner: Like I go over to people's houses and there was a guy in our apartment building growing up that I'd go and swap out graphics cards and stuff and that was a thing. Or upgrade memory and I just loved technology. I love being around it. And so going to school, I'm like, [00:18:00] I don't know what I wanna do.
Shawn Buttner: I wanted a school that was really great at computer science and management. I figured like business runs everything. It'd be really good to have those basic skills. Eventually I'd like to run my own business and so that sets my like education up to Walmart. So I had. A couple, like a year of programming in high school and two semesters of programming in grad school.
Shawn Buttner: And I got the programming job at Walmart, right? not traditional computer science degree, which is important because, When I got there, I had imposter syndrome right from the get-go. there's all these technical people, like I had some good, I had really great and interpersonal skills,figuring out team problems and stuff and like how to navigate, who to ask when somebody said no.
Shawn Buttner: Like those kind of type of things. Like I think that my schooling helped with the organizational navigation part, but the actual technical part. the first two years of that job, I never said [00:19:00] no. Hey, we need someone to do this really stupid task. put me in, I, I need to prove myself. And what happened was, I would say yes to so many things that the work that I was assigned would get neglected, right?
Shawn Buttner: And I think this happens a lot, especially as a young person in a job. yeah, I think it's really good to always do the grunt work, right? And just show that you're not above it, because there's weird things about that. But, there's also a point in time where you get to the situation I was in where it's like I have.
Shawn Buttner: Three times the amount of workload than anyone else on my team that you know, I should be responsible for is I'm not even taking care of the things that I'm supposed to do. Cause I keep saying yes to things and I just felt crushed. I felt that imposter syndrome never went away cuz it was being proven in that I was struggling in my job because I had the workload.
Shawn Buttner: and I just remember being like super stressed to the point where there's. This point in my life was the only time [00:20:00] where I would go to bed Dream about going into work. Oh my God. Like I'd skip the commute, but I'd walk in the door, I'd sit at my desk and I would actually like fix problems. wow.
Shawn Buttner: I got stuck out a bug for two weeks, went to, finally fell asleep at three o'clock in the morning, get up at six. So I'm like, exhausted. Yeah. But. In that three hour period, I went and I like went in the code and I'm like, there's where the bug is. And I woke up and I'm like, that can't be when I got into work and was like, fixed, worked.
Shawn Buttner: Wow. There you go. But that's how like singularly focused. I was. And so you do that for a while, you get burnt out, right? that's just, that's a perfect couch. Yeah.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Wow. that's intense. I. I didn't know that. I know your story, but I had not heard that you were actually dreaming about and you figured it out in the dream.
Michael Ceely, MFT: That's, that's some serious time at your job there. So yeah, of course that's gonna [00:21:00] lead to burnout, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Shawn Buttner: and I think like other folks in that type of situation, if you've ever been in that situation, there comes a time when. For me, it was like something needs to change.
Shawn Buttner: I feel like I'm like 24. I shouldn't feel this worn out about, I should be excited about life, and I'm already into the drudgery part of it. So that was like, when I'm like, I don't love, I, I really don't look forward to the day. I dread it. And that again, that's that why that trigger's so important.
Shawn Buttner: Like something needs to change. He did all the things that a good nerd would do because that's definitely me and that's do a bunch of research what am I stressing out about? How do you handle stress? I started getting into some financial management pieces cuz I had a ton of student loans on top of all of that.
Shawn Buttner: and that's what I found high performance. And I started getting into that material. I went to a seminar called High Performance Academy, run by my [00:22:00] guy, Brendan Bouchard, shout out to Brendan. And during that he asked me a question. And the question is, and I encourage everyone listening now to answer this for yourself.
Shawn Buttner: So get up some notes or a journal and think about this. But question was, are you living your truth? And I love that question because it is so broad and I feel like almost everyone at a very gut level knows that at a yes or no. Yeah. And the work comes from exploring, no, I'm not, or yes, I am. Like, and it's a really great question on either side of that coin, because if you're not living your truth, Getting the clarity on what that would look like can help you shift and move into that.
Shawn Buttner: If you are living your truth and you're really feeling really good about it, the question then is like, how can you double down on that? To enhance and get to that next level of contribution of service with that part of your life. So [00:23:00] I answered it. I definitely said no. I nearly fell out of my chair.
Shawn Buttner: Yeah. But. I got that. I did the work and did the clarity in that room. And so we're at this hotel, I'm like out on the, in the parking lot. It's like Santa Clara, California. So it's sunny, it's 80 degrees. It's perfect. The sun's going down. I'm in this parking lot and I call my mom. I'm like, Hey, okay, I need to make a change.
Shawn Buttner: I'm gonna, I had an idea for business, so I'm gonna go jump on that. I'm gonna leave Walmart. I've been there for five years. Which is a pretty big scary thing. I had been mulling it over for a while anyways, but, and my mom's thank God. And I'm like, what? It caught me off guard. And she's yeah, you've really changed.
Shawn Buttner: You haven't really been yourself. You really needed a change. And I'm like, thanks mom. Like you could've told me before. And she's actually I couldn't, you needed to figure that out for yourself to her credit. Wow. and When you do those, take those big risks sometimes. I believe that the universe conspires to help you because an hour after that call with my mom, my [00:24:00] old college like best friend, my buddy gives me a call.
Shawn Buttner: He is living in Oakland and he is Hey man, like I have this extra room. You should come live out here for free for as long as you need. and. I'm like, okay, like you realize like this happened at the exact right moment. Wow. I'm gonna go back and I'm creating a plan. Like you can say no up until this point, but just let me know.
Shawn Buttner: And it's yeah, no, come out here. So that got me like two months, went Walmart, packed my car, moved to the West coast and like a, like a movie, started a business that didn't go the way that I wanted, but. I felt like I was in control of my life. I felt like I was living my life. there's a sense of excitement, there's a sense of when I'm telling my story, and I encourage you to think about this too.
Shawn Buttner: Now, all the listeners, when you tell your story to your future kids or friends or family members, are you going to say, [00:25:00] I played it safe and did the safe thing? Or did you say, I followed my heart? I followed what my intuition was saying. And took a chance on myself to see what happened. Yeah. and that's a big question and everyone has different risk tolerances and stuff, but for me, when you, I was young and didn't have attachments, like that was really good.
Shawn Buttner: And that all that work though, for that business that failed led to an interview at Apple.
Michael Ceely, MFT: let me pause you real quick here, Sean. So you had actually started and leaving, Walmart. you started your first business right after that. Yeah. And that, that didn't go the way you wanted it to, is what you're saying?
Michael Ceely, MFT: Nope. okay. Which can be, that can be pretty scary, right? So that if you're taking the big leap there is that chance it's not gonna be successful and then it wasn't. was that scary for you too? hey, like I've gone out here, I tried, the business didn't work. and at that point, how are you feeling?
Shawn Buttner: so honestly, I think entrepreneurship in general is [00:26:00] a kind of polarity between feeling really stoked and making things happen, and then fighting the need to be in the fetal position in your bedroom, thinking that you screwed up your life, right? Yeah. so at the end of the, when I'm like, okay, this business isn't working, I need to figure something out.
Shawn Buttner: I had maxed out my credit cards. I think I had a weeks left of cash in the bank. Okay. Like it was pretty dire. And through the guy that was living, he, we had worked at a, I interned at a place in the Bay Area like a couple years before, like before, during college. So I had some mutual friends that had a buddy that worked at Apple, and I'm like, Hey, we're doing.
Shawn Buttner: Things in Python, which is the language I didn't know yet. But that experience of saying yes to everything at Walmart built the confidence that like I can build stuff in cool ball JavaScript. Like you throw any programming language at me, give me a week, I can figure out the basic building blocks.
Shawn Buttner: And that confidence came from that part of the story. So [00:27:00] like looking back at everything that I just shared, it all lines up to this moment here. I have a business that failed, but I had a website. I was doing video production stuff, like thought videos. I was really terrible. I always looked like a deer in headlights.
Shawn Buttner: that's all part of the journey too. Yeah. and it's funny, So I get to the interview and, I pass the technical part enough. just studying for a week on how to do this. I'm sitting with the interviewing manager and he's Hey, is there anything else we should know about you?
Shawn Buttner: And I felt like the interview went okay. I'm like, yeah, I started a business. I'm, still gonna try to maybe work as a side hustle. and he's oh, tell me about your business. And I'm like, I did, financial videos to help people get outta student debt. That's what that business was, to again, try to help people, something I was dealing with.
Shawn Buttner: And, he goes, Okay. But he's walking through and he is oh, you did these video. Oh, you did the lighting. Oh, you did all this yourself. And he is like impressed. And he thankfully is I'm gonna save you an embarrassment. I'm not gonna play [00:28:00] any of these videos while you're here. I'm like, thank you.
Shawn Buttner: Cause I'm about to die. again, not the best videos ever in the world, but, he's Okay, you know what? You're starting on Monday as soon as we get the paper run through. So that work, that failure, that the thing that didn't work out the way was the building block to the golden goose.
Shawn Buttner: Like working at Apple had been a dream of mine for a while. So since I was involved in technology, like I wanted to work at a Microsoft Apple, like one of those types of places. And It all lined up to make that happen, And that's when I, when the universe conspires to help you.
Shawn Buttner: I think that's another piece of evidence that I have in my life that I, that really, I don't, I think believes it. Or makes me believe in it.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Wow, that's awesome. What I really love about that story, Sean, is that you did tell the truth like, Hey, is there anything else that you know we should know about you?
Michael Ceely, MFT: And that was a risky thing to say that. Cause it's oh, either he is gonna think I suck at making videos, or maybe, but it, so it sounds like intuitively you [00:29:00] shared that because that showed, initiative that shows something unique about you. And then he said, yeah, you're starting on Monday, right?
Michael Ceely, MFT: Yeah. Kinda everything that we do in life, I like to think of it like laying bricks on a foundation. Like you're constantly building this brick building. I like bricks cuz it's every little step you do every day, makes a difference. So then if you're pivoting, switching careers or going to start your own business or whatever it is, you've already built a lot of parts of your foundation.
Michael Ceely, MFT: It's not like you're starting from zero. If you pivot and switch to something, you've got all these skills, you've got the videos, you've got this and that. And I think a lot of people don't really realize that. It's oh, if I switch to something, I'm going in at zero and I have, nothing to, to, to base it off of.
Michael Ceely, MFT: And that's just not true for, really for anybody unless you're, like a one year old, right? So that's a fantastic story. I love that. Yeah. I wanna talk about, just burnout in general. Burnout in general, [00:30:00] because I think there's so many people out there who are feeling at least like a sign of burnout.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Not, they may not be totally burnt, totally burnout, but it's a really common affliction, I think. And, what would you say to people who are feeling, some signs of bur, first of all, what are some signs of burnout? Okay. And what would you say to someone, maybe someone you're coaching and they're describing these sort of symptoms of burnout?
Michael Ceely, MFT: yeah. So what are some signs and how would you address that with
Shawn Buttner: somebody? Burnout, I believe, is a consistent feeling of overwhelm, of dread, of disengagement. So if you're failing yourself, pulling back, that, that can really be. Consistently over time too. I think that's the other part.
Shawn Buttner: It isn't like you had a bad day and you're just stressed over one situation at work. It's like when that stretches over a week, over a month, over a couple of months, over a year. that's, more of a, indication of burnout. So [00:31:00] signs, like actual signs for burnout that I've seen in my career and in coaching clients is people that.
Shawn Buttner: Or live or die by process. basically trying to control things. So like you're overwhelmed, you don't want to be there, there's too much work for you to do anyways. And someone's Hey, can you do this quick two minute thing for me? And it's did you go fill out the tent forms? Did you go and get it notarized at the other building?
Shawn Buttner: And like you have this big process to do this really simple thing where like the effort. To get approval for the thing is way more than the actual action. so that happened to me at Walmart, dealing with teams that were on these doom projects where like it was a three month project that was going on your three type thing,
Michael Ceely, MFT: that's what, that's a doom project is like something that's just not going right.
Shawn Buttner: it's, yeah, it's way over time. It's way over budget. People are overworked and what I mean, overworked, like people are working consistently like 60 to 80 hour [00:32:00] weeks without breaks. Yeah. Trying to get the thing set, but it's just so big and you just can't, you never feel like you can win. And so that's another type of, attitude is like, it doesn't matter what I do in my day to day, it's not gonna impact anything in my life, is another kind of sign that I look out for. And like coaching clients. Yeah. Yeah. And. Coaching through burnout. I think it, it's really counterintuitive, but you gotta get people to do more, right?
Shawn Buttner: And that's the last thing that they want to do. And that more is scheduling nine hours of sleep. It's scheduling and following through on exercise it's not doing the convenience foods. It's go get some salads, go get some greens, go get some fresh produce. get a home cooked meal, spend the time to cook a meal with your family or friends.
Shawn Buttner: these are the things that people tend to drop when they're feeling burnout too, again, from the definition. So getting [00:33:00] people reconnected with those aspects of their life generally can basically build up the bank of, I wanna say, positive emotions. It's not really positive emotions, but, excitement, Zest for life. Yeah. That can help you manage the less, or the more structured or the more like dreadful things that you need to do.
Michael Ceely, MFT: So it's burnout is almost something like, there's this term in psychology called learned helplessness. Where, you're, you feel powerless. Like you don't have power, you don't have agency, maybe an organization's,structured in a way that you're just, you're trying to make an impact, but you're not, people aren't recognizing your efforts.
Michael Ceely, MFT: All these things. So it's a sense of powerlessness. And so the burnout is just almost literally like the flame that you have, the fire inside of you starts to Go down or go so high that it just totally burns out. and like you say, it's hard when people are in that place of burnout to convince them to take more action cuz [00:34:00] they're exhausted, right?
Michael Ceely, MFT: But that's the whole point. The very source of the burnout is that there's an action that needed to be taken a while ago and you didn't take it. And it's not that you're unsympathetic toward your client, you're giving them some tough love. Yeah. wait, you've been at this job for how long and you're feeling this way and you haven't gotten out like that is on you.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Or you've been skipping, exercising for how long? that's the action. So again, that's what you do is you show people the action that needs to be taken to leverage the situation.
Shawn Buttner: and yeah, on that, that learned helplessness, really all those other areas, Health, relationships, nutrition.
Shawn Buttner: Yeah. If it goes back to you don't feel like anything you do has an impact in your life. Going back to the one of the three words. Yeah. you do have, again, it's, it's, it is that agency of you can control going for a run after a long day at work. You can control the food that you're putting into your body.
Shawn Buttner: You can [00:35:00] control the quality of time you have with people outside of work. Yeah. so yeah, I just wanted to point that out, that I didn't dress it explicitly, but that's really what's going on. It's the what do you have control on, right? How are you exacting your agency on that for your happiness?
Michael Ceely, MFT: so Shawn, tell us a little bit about your Meaningful Revolution podcast. I know you launched that. Fairly recently, but you've been like packing in the episodes and it's just been really amazing to watch your growth. And how did you choose that name, the meaningful revolution?
Shawn Buttner: That's a really good question.
Shawn Buttner: and first I also wanna shout out to you Michael, you've been on the podcast twice now. definitely have really helped me shape and grow and learn as a podcaster. So I just wanna, do a little bit of gratitude there real quick. Yeah. Thank you. No problem. Yeah. so how did I come up with a Meaningful Revolution podcast name?
Shawn Buttner: so I was thinking about. So I've been working in my coaching business and I've been trying to think what are, what's [00:36:00] like the through line through my life? And that's, how did I get from. Not being a software engineering student to a software engineering job, to running a business to another software engineering job at a prestigious company.
Shawn Buttner: So now being a coach, right? That's when you say all those words together, it's that doesn't make sense in a lot of ways. But I think that the through line to it was always trying to reach a next level of service to reach a next level, of fulfillment. to really find meaning in what I was doing, And at Walmart there's a huge part. At the time there where I was super burnt out. I didn't feel like any of my work mattered to anyone. It felt a lot of like busy work or like, why is the, how does this connect to anything good in the world? And that's not a really great thought. And that was part of the, of why I'm like, I need to shift.
Shawn Buttner: Outta that particular job. And that's actually why I ended up leaving Apple was,[00:37:00] I felt like I could see how the code I was writing was making the product better and, hearing people talk about the new OS and oh, I did some stuff on that. that felt really cool. Yeah.
Shawn Buttner: But I love the mentorship in the jobs. And that men mentorship and those relationships were more meaningful than the work. Yeah. And I'm like, oh. So it's fulfillment and meaning that I've been trying to, that I've been seeking my whole life. And so the meaningful revolution, I is hoping to inspire people by listening to people nerd out about their passions, about what they find meaningful, to go out and do that for themselves.
Shawn Buttner: Like at the end of the day, I would love for people to live a life. That they find fulfilling, that they find meaningful, and that's worth living. Yeah. So that's where that comes from.
Michael Ceely, MFT: I got it. Yeah. I love that. really, so meaning meaningful has to have some meaning and the revolution is, means a change, some sort of a change.
Michael Ceely, MFT: Yeah. Doesn't have to be a [00:38:00] total revolution perhaps, but of some sort of a change, some sort of a shift. And sometimes a big change is really good. So that's the Meaningful Revolution podcast. Everyone should check this out. You've been having some really amazing guests on there, and, just a lot of great knowledge from a lot of people.
Michael Ceely, MFT: So I'm, it's so cool to see the growth in that podcast. Shawn Buttner, we gotta wrap things up here. I could talk with you forever. this is some great stuff. Just such an inspiring story, just listening to, your trajectory. And you said, maybe it doesn't make sense, but to me it makes perfect sense.
Michael Ceely, MFT: everything seems to be really lined up and the joy, the growth, the impact. I think you embody that. And I think that anyone who works with you as a coach will be, Totally impacted by you, and everything you do. And I, for listeners out there, we've known each other for a number of years and I think that what you're doing is great and it's always just real pleasure talking with you [00:39:00] because you're, you are very optimistic.
Michael Ceely, MFT: And I think that is one of, one of the huge strengths that you have. And I think it would be nice if more people were a little more optimistic in the world, right?
(Ending) I really loved that conversation with Michael and I hope you did too. If you'd like to listen to us talk even more. And the show notes below or on the screen. If you're on YouTube, you can see. One of the interviews I did of Michael and what he does. It's fantastic. So go check it out. And we'll see you in the next episode of the meaningful.
Revolution. Podcast.
