From Disruption to Revolution: Addressing Emotional Challenges in Modern Education with Leroy Slanzi
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Shawn Buttner: [00:00:00] (Intro) Hey, it's Shawn. And if you want to fully leave your personal, meaningful revolution. Going after that big idea, that big mission that they purpose. That thing that adds meaning to your day-to-day life. You're going to need a master emotional intelligence. Now today's guest is a principle and has been successfully implementing emotional learning curriculum. In his schools up in Canada.
And what we can learn as leaders from this is how to. Get changed in a large group of people with kids or not. It's still a hard thing. And really, I think. What most people could gain from this particular conversation is thinking about how do we set up these environments? How do we manage change when we have other systemic forces [00:01:00] against us in the form of how things have been, or how things. And you know how the environment or a world has changed, but maybe the system that we work within hazards. And so I really enjoy this conversation with Lee, Roy slanty. And he talks about his book, emotional schools, and we cover a ton of different topics.
I know that you'll love. And as we continue the season talking about how can you most effectively lead your personal, meaningful revolution? I think there'll be some great takeaways for you in this discussion. So let's get into it.
Hey Leroy, welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast. I'm so glad that you're here.
Leroy Slanzi: It's nice to be here, Shawn. Thanks for having me.
Shawn Buttner: Awesome. so we were, this season we're talking about why [00:02:00] people need to lead their personal meaningful revolutions. And I know that you've written a book on something that's really important to you, which is how to,maybe you should explain it, right?
your book, Emotional Schools, what is that about? And maybe we'll start from there.
Leroy Slanzi: Yeah, my book is really about how society has shifted, in terms of, social media and just parents our parents financial situation,I grew up in a time where mom was at home and so kids, would come home to a parent and there was attachment and whatnot.
Now we have more kids. We're coming home to empty houses because parents have to work to make ends meet and their babysitters turn out to be gaming systems or social media, and whatnot, and they're not outside playing as much and they're not interacting with their peers as much. And so my book really ties into the fact that kids are not developing.
their critical thinking skills, their conflict skills, their communication skills, all of [00:03:00] those things, that you would do just through free and structured play. and it's having an impact on schools, and we're seeing teachers not want to do the job anymore, we're seeing more behavior in schools, it's becoming harder and harder just to teach core subjects.
And my book really dives into how to. help with those shortcomings for our kids. and it lays out a good solid guide for educators and schools and school districts to follow to help circumvent societal woes so that our kids are stronger,
Shawn Buttner: right on. So I imagine. And correct me if I'm wrong, maybe a lot of this came from the huge world event we just got through with COVID.
Leroy Slanzi: you know what, I started to see it about 10, 15 years ago, more so about 10 years ago. with the introduction of gaming systems becoming more and more, involved in kids lives, where I noticed it [00:04:00] first was sleep deprivation. I started to see more and more kids showing up to school because they were up gaming all night instead of going to bed.
and then, you started to see this influx of social media where kids are now on Snapchat or,and Instagram and TikTok and you really noticed that piece when they come to school, they fall asleep in class. And then, of course, if they're sleep deprived, they're more irritable.
they're tired, their academic,abilities decreased and then COVID hit. And then what you saw with COVID now was. Not only were, kids having to combat the gaming, the social media, and whatnot, but they were also not being educated. I know a lot of schools, like the schools I run, we tried to do, sessions over Zoom and have parents do homeschooling, and I'm a principal and I struggled with homeschooling with my own kids, right?
Then, so you combine that with the educational gaps that came from COVID, where kids weren't in school, with what was going [00:05:00] on before, and now we're just in this position where we have kids who are unable to cope,and they're not as deep thinking as they used to be, they're not as creative as they used to be, they're still, and I don't want to paint all the kids with the same brush, because there's a lot of kids who are excelling and successful and doing well.
But we're seeing, what used to be 10, 15% of a classroom in terms of behavioral challenges and learning difficulties now increased to 30 or 40%. And, teachers are becoming more than just teachers now. They're social workers, they're nurses. They're psychologists, they're every, everything you can imagine under this sun just to cope with being in a class.
Yeah.
Shawn Buttner: My wife's a therapist, marriage and family therapist. And when she was working in private schools during COVID and she got turned into a body that would just man a classroom. So without having the, any school or classroom management skills [00:06:00] without having at most worked with three kids at a time, And small groups was now responsible for a classroom of 25, 30 kids.and not doing her job, which was to be the counselor.
Leroy Slanzi: yeah. and that's the, and that's the tough part. So she experienced it firsthand. I don't know what it's like in the United States for your class sizes, but in Canada, kids in kindergarten to grade three, we can, we cap it around 22 to 24 kids, but grade four and up, there's, you can have up to 30 kids in a class and you have dysregulated kids and kids unable to, to manage their emotions.
you're. You're babysitting, good luck teaching a math lesson, right? And so your wife obviously experienced what it was like firsthand for a classroom teacher, in this day and age, right
Shawn Buttner: on. So as a principal, as a leader of,educational institution, how do you end up [00:07:00] navigating that,the new re reality, a new environment with students.
Leroy Slanzi: it comes down to really comes down to structure. It comes down to organization. It comes down to your relationships with staff. And then it comes down to your programming and a belief. So if you have a staff, that believes in a common view. And so this is, I've worked in five or six different schools.
Now I've been in three high schools, a middle school, elementary school a few times. I'm in an elementary school currently. And if you get a staff that understands that we are in a different world when it comes to kids and their emotional states and their mental health and their ability to, just think and communicate and collaborate and have a personal awareness and a social awareness so they understand what's going on around them.
If you get The staff understanding that it is a problem, [00:08:00] then it allows you to bring in the correct programming, right? And we have a really sound social emotional learning program where we, first educate teachers around trauma, getting them to understand what it's like in society, get them to understand technology, that it's not going anywhere.
Technology is here to stay. we have a no technology, program. rule at our school. we have laptops and iPads, but it's completely controlled, right? But we don't allow cell phones. We don't allow that stuff in the elementary school. my teachers are all on the same page and they understand that kids in our school are emotionally dysregulated.
They may come with some trauma and because of that we have to teach them how to cope with that trauma. and that emotional dysregulation. to a T, from kindergarten to grade seven, we teach breathing techniques. We teach muscle relaxation strategy. We talk about mindfulness. We teach kids how to label their emotions.
We tell them and teach them what it means to be angry. We teach them what shame is, embarrassment is, [00:09:00] what it means to be silly. And because of that, they can identify what they're feeling. And then what we do is, we actually structure a lot of free play and structured play into our day. So I actually have two recesses in the lunch hour because that free play is where kids have to communicate and work together, right?
They have to solve problems and yeah, there's supervisors out there, but it's like the good old days when, you go in the neighborhood and they're playing kick the can or they're, they're playing baseball out there and they're organizing themselves and that's, what's missing in society.
Right now it's like you don't get all you don't walk out your door and see kids playing on the street in big groups like they used to, because they're inside gaming or they're, too busy, interacting with their phones. And we try to incorporate a lot of that, thatinteractive, stuff with that, character building and that growing up properly, right?
that's what we do. We structure it. We incorporate the social emotional learning programs. The program we [00:10:00] use that is phenomenal is called Play is the Way. And it's a structured program, play program, where we use play to elicit emotion from kids. So we actually, believe it or not, we try to trigger them a little bit.
because there's no better time to teach a kid to soothe when they're starting to feel a little heightened. You can do all kinds of breathing and soothing activities with them. And so when they feel it out on the playground or somewhere else, they're like, Oh, I know what that's like. When I was playing time ball or zigzag ball, or if I was, playing bullseye, we were playing islands with Mr.
Slanzy in the gym or with my teacher in the classroom. I had to stop and take a deep breath, put my hand over my heart, and I was able to soothe myself. And when they soothe themselves that they can now cope with that stressor, right? So that's what you have to do in a school is you have to incorporate that.
And then once you get kids who can soothe and deal with their stressors, guess what? You can get them to sit down to do math, social studies, right?
Shawn Buttner: Right
Leroy Slanzi: on. Yeah.
Shawn Buttner: I'm curious. Has this programming [00:11:00] translated into I'll call it emotional health, a better emotional health for staff and teachers, people that actually have to teach it to, it's one of those, you, I think, especially here in the United States, a lot of times with the education system, you're relearning basic skills cause you have to help your kid with algebra and you're like, Oh, haven't used this in years, but it's deepening those skills.
have you found that to be true out of curiosity?
Leroy Slanzi: Yeah, it's inevitable because, we're living in a world where even, you know, and I keep pushing social media and technology as being a big issue, but parents are also on their devices. Parents are also addicted to the clicks and the likes and the notifications.
And when they're on that, they're not talking with their kids. They're not having conversations. They're not attaching, right? and so when I do presentations and workshops and professional development with teachers and whatnot, there's a lot of head nodding and even me, I'm like, I'm [00:12:00] guilty, right?
I, my kids tell me, Dad, get off your phone, put check in your emails. We're here, be present, right? And, there's a lot of learning that goes on because there's not a person alive There's not one who can, who does not deal with certain stressors that cause them to be emotion, emotional, right? We all, whatever interaction, like if I stub my knee on this desk getting up, my first reaction would be, shit, that hurt, right?
And I'm going to have an emotional response, right? Or if I walk out and the lights are too bright, it's oh, that's bright. Or I walk out and there's a parent there and they're angry. It's I can feel my heart right away. And so everything that we teach to the kids, all of our. All of our teachers and our parents, they're in the same boat.
They're going, wow, this is helping. And now I've run the social emotional learning programs, specifically Play is the Way, in several schools, and it has had a massive impact on teachers, on kids, on parents, on [00:13:00] the community. and I'm happy to say that when my kids get together with other schools, my kids, and this is going to sound a little egotistical, but they are the most well behaved kids there are in the bunch because they know right from wrong.
They have the strength. to do right, even though wrong feels fun and good, they're really able to cope and take a step back and go, that's the wrong thing to do, even though it looks like a lot of fun. And so I always notice a big difference between kids in schools I'm in, and even the teachers within schools that I'm in, because we all adhere to that same mental health, emotional, being system, right?
And it's a system. And we structure it. into our system. So it's not loosey goosey, because if you do anything loosey goosey, I don't care how great the program is, it's going to be like herding cats. And so we have a very sound structure and system to, to embed [00:14:00] social emotional learning into our curriculum, right?
So it's all combined into math, English, social science, art, phys ed. We combine that social, emotional well being and those, that program right in with it. So it's a symbiotic relationship, right?
Shawn Buttner: Yeah, that's super fascinating. I love the word system. I'm a systems guy myself, coming from like technology and, being trained on how to do like flowcharts and stuff.
so I love that. And it's like holistic. it's not just. Particular subjects, maybe, but the whole thing. So I'm curious then if, so as you mentioned, you've been to, you've led a bunch of schools before as a principal, say you were to move today, right? And you're starting at a fresh new school that really needed help.
With the social emotional learning, what do you see any common things that you have to [00:15:00] change up, up front? Number one. And number two, how do you deal with systemic inertia where we've never done it that way? Maybe I'm a teacher that's been doing this for 50 years. We never had to teach any of this crap.
And now we have this extra thing that they're trying to get me to do. how do you
Leroy Slanzi: approach those two? Yeah. So I've been lucky enough. We're unlucky enough to be, asked to go to schools that are dysfunctional, are toxic, and are a struggle, right? And, the first thing that you walk into is we don't do that here.
That's not what we do. we do it this way. And, it's, I actually, oh, somebody just walked by. I actually,I'm actually a little bit bored of going in and restructuring schools now because it's a bit, it's easy. but, the first thing you do, and I, that sounds a little bit, overconfident, but, I do a lot of workshops.
And I go to other communities and I work with teachers in a multitude of schools and, the first thing [00:16:00] you do is you just present, you have to present the teachers with the evidence, you present the teachers with the evidence, and usually that'll come in the form of office referrals. anecdotal experiences with student behavior, academic success, and you can take that data, so I talk about structure and organization, you don't want to go in willy nilly and say, oh, I heard about this, or I heard about that, or, you don't want to talk about hearsay, you want to come in and say, in September, you had 240 referrals to the office, And you can break it down into, you had 10 kids shutting down, you had 8 kids throwing chairs, you had 4 kids telling a teacher off, you had 3 kids vaping in the bathroom.
you can really break it down, right? And then you dive into then, how that behavior correlates how they're feeling. Right? and how are you feeling as a teacher? Are most schools that I go into, I outline and I label right away their job and I tell teachers all the time and I, I [00:17:00] outline for them that you're not a traditional teacher like we used to be in the 1980s and 70s, 80s and even early 90s where you taught your subject and that's what happened is now you're a teacher.
Like I alluded to earlier, you're nurses, you're psychologists, you're social workers, you're mental health clinicians, you're administrators,you're, you're everything. And even in, in Tennessee, I saw they passed a law that teachers can carry firearms for crying out loud.
and, which is shocking to me. So now you're police officers because of what's going down on, down in the United States with a lot of that violence and stuff. And so it comes right back to providing evidence and getting teachers on the same page. and that's that common view I talked about earlier on your show here was it's to get teachers to believe that there's a problem.
And once you can get them to believe that there's a problem, then what you do is you provide evidence. from other schools. And that's what I do. I provide evidence from schools that I was at and I bring in the office referrals, the discipline [00:18:00] and I, the disciplinary issues. And I bring all that stuff in and I say, here's what it was in year one when I got there.
This is what we did as a staff and how we bought in and here's year two, you see how it decreased year three, almost down to nothing, right? And so you have to come in and you provide evidence and then you start from there. And then, and then you work with teachers, you empower teachers. And I think what you realize is that a lot of teachers who are in a toxic school or a tough environment, they're suffering trauma every single day.
That's why they want to quit.it's, they didn't get into the profession to deal with what they're dealing with. And I actually talk about that in my book quite a bit. I talk about teacher burnout and how the system is failing teachers. And if they would just restructure and reorganize and implement certain things, you'd have a better, a workforce, a happier workforce, and they'd want to stay.
in the States, money is a big issue for teachers because they don't pay them very well down there in, in a lot of areas. but if you can get teachers on the, on, on a common ground and a [00:19:00] common vision and show evidence, of moving forward. And, when I talk about organization on structure, structural leadership, you also have to be a servant leader.
And you have to be a relational leader. You have to be, and my dad said this all the time, when I was growing up, he said, if you're the foreman or the boss and there's a hole to be dug, you make sure you grab that shovel before any of your employees grab it, you grab it and you start digging and you show them that you're willing to get your hands dirty and you start digging that hole.
And so when I work for my staff, if they need anything, I jump, even if it's something that it's are you kidding me? You can do that yourself. It's Oh, I got it. And then, eventually they see that you're going to work, you're going to work for them, you'll, if you have to stay late, you'll stay late, if you need to, if they need some photocopies, go photocopy their, if they're scrambling, if they need 20 copies, go photocopy 20 copies, and yeah, at first it makes your day a little bit longer, a little more arduous, but you show your staff that you're there for them, you're there for them.
and then in the meantime, you form a relationship with them, and then they learn to trust you, and so you get that organization, you [00:20:00] get that structure, you get the evidence, you become a servant, you form the relationships, and then it all just melds together, and usually it takes about one, I would say one to three years for a school to transform, and sometimes you'll get a school where you get a staff that'll buy in right away, and you'll move forward, and in other times, you have some Some guys who are, people who are very unionists or have a really bad taste in their mouth because they've been burned by the school district far too often and they don't trust you no matter what you do and so you got to work with that and you know eventually you'll get by and sometimes unfortunately you have to let teachers know they're in the wrong profession and they should probably try something else.
and, cause a lot of people got into the profession because there was no other jobs that they really knew what they wanted to do. So they figured they should teach, right? And it's okay, this, you're not cut out for this actually. which is few and far between, but it's a real mixture of everything, right?
Shawn Buttner: Yeah, it's [00:21:00] refreshing to hear a leader actually say that, some of the best places that I worked in my career. Yeah. they were very vocal about if this isn't the right place for you, let's find out where that is either inside the company or not. And it's a very different relationship from someone that's just beating you down for not performing.
cause it's a difference of empathy and care. It's I want, if we can align what you want with what we're doing here, everybody wins and that's great. And if not, then it's causing more trouble. good on you for, being that type of leader, it's needed, especially in schools.
Leroy Slanzi: Yeah. and you know what, I, as a school leader, as a principal, I also have to deal with upper management, I have to do it. And so I, myself, like I Reese, I was just working for a school district for 16 years and I actually just resigned last year and I came and I'm working for an Indian band, five kilometers down the road.
And [00:22:00] the leadership is unbelievable. and the organization is unbelievable. My boss is fantastic. So I know what it's like to work for a leader that you just don't click with. And I can tell you, you want to have mental health issues, work for somebody who really does not want to think outside the box, doesn't value your opinion, undermines you along the way.
Like I finally had enough because it was too much policy, too much upper management, too much ministry of education being involved in, and. so even after 16 years, I'm good at what I do and they don't really, when you're running a school, they don't impact you a lot, but eventually they can impact you if they don't, do not let you move forward with your teachers.
and that's part of the reason, like I actually in my book, I talked about the policy makers and district leaders and if you want your staff to trust you and you want them to value, those values and those character traits around emotion and compassion and kindness. And if the school district stops you or the leaders above stop you, as a [00:23:00] principal, you're screwed.
Because you can't move forward with them, and your staff knows it, and then you're dead in the water, right? and there's ways of working around it and stuff, but after a while, you sometimes just got to cut bait and put on a new rig, right? Go put on a new, new leech, new fly, and go to a different fishing hole.
And, that's what I eventually did, and it's, it's part of the reason why I wrote this book is because, district management, district leadership. Government, they need to open their eyes too, and, teachers aren't fighting because, it's fun. They're fighting because they're trying to make a difference.
And I, I've met very few teachers in my day who aren't in the profession for the right reasons and, aren't in there, they love kids. And, but they sure get disgruntled when they get beat up over and over again, right?
Shawn Buttner: As anyone would. Yeah.
Leroy Slanzi: Yeah, sure.
Shawn Buttner: So that's an interesting point with something I had in the back of my mind coming [00:24:00] into this conversation is.
at least, and I don't know as much about the Canadian system. I assume it's similar to how we are down here, but of course, similar, but not the same, but,a lot of the way that it was organized here was for training, like there's a model for school for training people to work in a factory, So it was this industrialized educational model where we have these basic outcomes. We're geared for these certain jobs that the world's changed since that was, that system was created 50, a hundred years ago. do you have, is that the same for where you're at in Canada? And how do you manage the, because you mentioned all the technology, all the social media, all these different things that could be distractions or we need to, Figure out how to incorporate or have policy to manage like how do you sit in two different [00:25:00] worlds?
Because it feels like you get pulled apart if you're not careful
Leroy Slanzi: Yeah, it's interesting because I started teaching in an era where we have you know, I'm British Columbia I'm sure you know about our logging industry and mining industry like mining, logging, you're talking about, you're not in a bricks and mortar building as factory workers, but you're basically pumping out to go and fill these labor type jobs.
and that's what they want to do is they, they want to train you to be, On the clock working for the man, right? But we're pretty lucky here in BC because our government and our teachers unit actually got together and teachers say would maybe say that they didn't get together well enough.
and I might have to agree, but ultimately the end result was a curriculum based on these big ideas. So if you're in science, your big idea might revolve around.developing a chemical or a new shampoo or something like this. Shampoo has these,chemical equations. And so you take that big idea and you throw it at kids and say, [00:26:00] Hey, What can you do?
And so we really pushed this model around competencies, which is critical thinking, creative thinking, social, personal awareness and communication, like we push that so we have creative thinkers, right? and so what we want to do is we want kids to be able to dive into industry, to be able to think on their own and to run with things, right?
And, but in the same breath, I still have classrooms, like I've got classrooms, there's tables, and you have kids working around, around a table, groups of, in groups of three or four. They can still be little shits, right? Pardon my French. They still will all of a sudden sit in a group and they're not going to work.
it does still serve a purpose to put them into rows and say, sit down and get to work. Because I work behind, I'm in this new era, I work behind a computer and I write and I have my things on the side. And, even, I coach basketball as well. I make them do a layup line and do layups 25 times with corrections until they get it right.
we have to be very careful that we throw out the old to replace it with this new, let's sit in groups, let's [00:27:00] collaborate, let's be creative thinkers and critical thinkers. That's assuming that kids will sit there and do that for six hours a day without. without getting preoccupied with the shiny object or their buddy's leg where they can poke it with a pencil or, or just start talking about the weekend.
And so it's not as much of a utopia as you think it is this new, like you see on however, I think it might be Google or wherever, the where they have these shows where people are coming in on skateboards and they're all hip and they have, like it, There's a lot of industry that it's still a business that still requires you to work behind a computer, sit at a desk.
Be patient, right? And so it's, again, it's like that emotional, social, emotional stuff where you want it to be symbiotic with the curriculum. It's the same thing when you're teaching academics, you need a good mixture of both. those kids need to learn how to be in rows, listen to the teacher, take instruction, take notes, write a test, but they also, need to learn how to be in a group.
They need to learn how to collaborate. They need to learn how to think critically. They need to [00:28:00] learn how to build on top of each other. And then you throw in the technology piece and that's crucial. Like I'm a, I'm a huge supporter of technology in schools for the right reasons,
Shawn Buttner: but
Leroy Slanzi: I have a real problem with technology around gaming and social media and whatnot.
If it's not, regulated and structured properly where parents and kids are just constantly engaging their phones in that family bond and that attachment breaks apart. So I'll use a good example. I, I wrote a, I wrote another book on breathing strategies. So to compliment my book, Emotional Schools, it's called And Breathe, and it's 50 fun, calming, breathing strategies for parents and kids, right?
And the cover of the book, and I've never used AI before, but I went and found one of those AI apps where you, it makes pictures for you, right? And I'm, cause with my first book, I worked with an editor and a publisher and I told them my idea for my book cover and they were book cover designers and they graphic artists and they built my book cover.
this one here, [00:29:00] I just did it through KDP Amazon. And I thought, I'm going to try this. And I want my book to feel light. I want it to feel like sunshine. I want it to feel calm. I want to feel rays of sunshine. I wish they would have grabbed the book. I could have shown it. And it spit out this beautiful cover and and it spit it out.
And I was like, Oh wow. And I'm like, okay. And I came back and I said, okay, can we add this and add that? And next thing I know I got this cover, right?and I use a program called Book Bolt. To build the pages of the book inside for so I can publish it on Amazon So I gave my all of my staff this morning because it showed up yesterday ironically on my doorstep So I gave more complimentary.
Congrats. Yeah, you're welcome. And thank you. and so I've said to my staff I said, hey, let's sit down and let's talk about building books with our kids. Let's talk about AI Let's show them how to generate illustrations. Let's show them how BookVault works. Let's show them how Amazon KDP works. I don't know what the legal age is for a kid to get on Amazon and create a KDP account, but if their parents sign off on it, we can create a [00:30:00] bunch of budding authors out of here using AI and developing illustrations and, so there's that aspect of, as well.
Like it's not about sitting there with pencil crayons and pastels and charcoal and doing that type of, which is. I'm a huge, I love art. I, my house is filled with beautiful knockoff, Van Gogh's and all that kind of stuff. Like I, I like them, right? I buy them off Amazon for 80 bucks a painting, but still I love looking at them, right?
But to answer your question, it's a real combination of old and new and doing it all together and knowing when to go old school, when to go new school. and fuse it. And that's where the teacher has to know their audience. They have to know their clientele. They have to know the kids in front of them.
They have to know their strengths and weaknesses, and they have to have kids who are regulated. So if you want to. fly off into something creative and new you can. If you want to put them into rows, they'll actually sit there and not get frustrated and want to throw a pencil at you. You know [00:31:00] what I mean?
And it's a good, and it's the same thing when it comes to social emotional well being as well. You can get kids to breathe and think about their feelings and emotions, but at some point, you need to draw a line and say, you know what, you're not getting it. You can go home the rest of the day.
you can have a little home suspension with your parents and then come back and try again the next day. you know, because i'm not I don't like suspending kids. I won't you know, I try to avoid as much as possible But there always comes a time where it's like I got to go old school say sorry You're just not functioning here today, and I need to send a home for the sake of the kids and the sake of the teacher, you're gonna go home and have a break.
Let's try again tomorrow. And then you go back and say, let's do some self soothing. Let's do some breathing. Let's try again. So just like anything, like I would never throw out what we learned in, in, the 1800s or early 1900s. That was awesome. Just because we're in 2024,
like, why would we do that?
you look, even looking at clothing, how retro it is. it's old is good and new is, [00:32:00] is, it's all has to fit and, and you got to think about the types of learners,there's introverts, there's extroverts, there's kids who are ambiverts,and introverts don't want to be in a group, they want to sit in a row behind a computer, they want to go to school, right?
And extroverts, they want to be in a group. you got me going on a little tangent here, Shawn, but, yeah, right?
Shawn Buttner: yeah, no, it's, yeah, I was trying to take it all in. Yeah,
Leroy Slanzi: it's a lot. I'm sorry. I told you I talk a lot. Once again, we got one here.
Shawn Buttner: Oh, you're fine. It's just a lot of good stuff.
so one thing as you were explaining that came up and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it is I was listening to a podcast they're talking about when the telethon started to get into culture that. There are a lot of articles in like the newspaper that there would never be, it would destroy interpersonal relationships.
It would, it's sounds like it rhymes with some [00:33:00] of how people phrase technology now. And the point of the podcast was we just didn't learn. We didn't know how to use that tool properly yet. There wasn't the right way to use that tool. It was just everyone trying to figure it out. And I feel like in a lot of different things with AI or social media, even.
We're still, it's so new, we're still trying to figure it out, or you can name it,in that regard, it sounds like, and let me know if I'm reading this right, your approach is, it's, we're still, we, it's great when we have it figured out and it's used, in a forward propelled way, maybe for student learning or for social emotional, or yeah, social emotional reasons or whatnot, but it's not, if it's not harnessed in the right way, it's actually a distraction that hurts the whole system.[00:34:00]
Leroy Slanzi: You're nailing it. you're absolutely nailing it. And I use the phrase don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right? And I don't know if you're this, I'm 50, but you probably remember when parents used to get accused of using the television set as a babysitter. oh, they just put their kids in front of the TV and they don't do anything with them, right?
Do you remember those days? That was before, actually Coleco and Atari might have been out back then I think at that point,and and it's like anything if you use things in moderation You're gonna be okay I'm not a drinker, but every now and then, if it's a hot day, I'll have a, I'll have a beer or whatnot, but I don't have 12, I'll have one or two and call her a day, and, it's the same thing, I don't know, in California, in, in BC, they've legalized marijuana up here, right?
and, what you saw right off the bat, is you saw kids and adults smoking pot like it's going out of style. He smelled it everywhere and it went over the top [00:35:00] because they weren't using it in moderation. And one of the systems that I had in place at the high school I had with cell phones, because I think a lot of places they want, they're trying to, a lot of school districts and provinces are actually in states are trying to ban cell phones in high schools.
you're gonna have kids walking out. They're gonna, they're gonna revolt. you're gonna I know in the province of Ontario, I've talked to teachers out there. They have a ban on cell phones in high schools and teachers are spending their half their day. fighting with kids over cell phones, right?
Whereas if you just had a system in place that the kids bought into and were part of, you'd be okay. So for example, at the high school I was at, and I've left and I think they may have since changed the policy, a stoplight is a red, yellow, and a green light, right? And so we created a stoplight system where we actually just had a stoplight on the classroom door with Velcro and the teacher could put on the door.
A red light means your cell phone goes in your backpack. It's not happening today. Yellow light means if I have a yellow light, it means you need to have your cell phone on the desk because we're going to use it for educational purposes, which means you're going to go on [00:36:00] Wikipedia. You're going to do a Google search.
You might need your calculator. You know what I mean? And a green one means, you know what? Put your AirPods in. I'm giving you your lessons. Fly out as long as you can work and, and if you want to watch videos while you're working, if you're doing homework at home, go ahead, and of course you have your red light would always be in change rooms and bathrooms and places where, you know, it, privacy should be 100 percent private.
So it's, again, we set it up so that it was, a tool that teachers and kids all agreed on. And, as long as a teacher wasn't, and there was some teachers who were red light all the time, just anti technology. guess what? Those teachers sent more kids to the office and had more fights with kids than the teacher who was more yellow and green or more, more yellow and red, right?
Because, it's one of the things I try to do with my own children is, and kids at school too, I try to say yes as much as I possibly can. If they're doing. something for the right reasons. a lot of times for parents, teachers, [00:37:00] when a kid comes and asks, the first thing they're going to say is no, that's your default response.
Whereas if you can say yes to a kid wanting to be creative or hanging out with friends or doing whatever, when it comes time to say no, they're like, Oh yeah, I find it's like, Oh, they take no much easier. and it's all about that give and take and that moderation And again, goes back to structure.
It's like parents at home, like you should have a cell phone room, parents and kids. When you're eating dinner, put your cell phone down half an hour before bedtime. Put your cell phone away every morning. You know what? Saturday morning. If you wake up, you know what? Get your cell phones away until you're done swimming lessons or soccer practice.
And then you get some structured family time together and then go ahead and go on your gaming system for two, three hours. But after the three hours is up, now we need to go, you need to get outside and go play. And it's all moderation, right? And then, of course, parents should be putting parental controls on their kids cell phones to make sure they're not typing in the wrong, because that's the problem with a lot of these sites.
You type in the wrong word [00:38:00] and it'll pop up with things that kids do not need to be learning about, which is another huge problem. Our kids are desensitized to so much stuff because of what they can see on their cell phone, right? But again, you manage it, you moderate it, you use it appropriately and you can have the best of both worlds because I love technology.
I love, I've been doing a lot of stuff on Canva recently. I just discovered it and I'm trying to learn how to edit video, like doing what you're doing. And it's, I spend hours on there sometimes, but after a couple hours, I'm like, God, I got to get off here and go for a hike and I got to put my phone down and remind myself, right?
It's just, it's like anything. Everything has to be in moderation.
Shawn Buttner: and a lot of us figuring out how to use these tools, right? Is it, I, in my head, I'm putting some of these social, emotional, and self regulating, topics under the things you learn outside the classroom. I think your approach has integrated a lot more, but how to manage conflict with friends, there's [00:39:00] not a class that you go, it's not like your first period of classes.
Tough, difficult conversations with friends, how to manage that, but on the recess, recess, maybe you figure out how to share better or whatnot. Yeah. So
Leroy Slanzi: I gotta tell you, I'm not a fan of the, let's sit kids down in class and talk about how to handle conflict. I'm not a fan of teaching, teaching it directly.
I just, what I'm a fan of is when kids are working in groups, you brainstorm in advance. And you be proactive. What's the right way to act in a group? What's the wrong way to act in a group, right? So when they're dealing with situations where all of a sudden there's a conflict, what you do is you jump in and say, Oh, I'm feeling a little bit of conflict over there.
Kids, put your pencils down. Just take a few deep breaths. Why are we taking a deep breath? We're taking a deep breath so we can soothe and calm and think now, how do you handle this situation? How do you call, how do you collaborate? How are you going to deal with this? Because. [00:40:00] It's the same thing. If you've ever been in a meeting in a boardroom, you've watched it get heated, right?
So I'm a huge proponent of experiential learning and discovery learning. I do, I will do some proactive and some front loading around because you got to teach what conflict is, right? You got to teach what collaboration is. You got to teach to them what it is, but to have them sit there and learn about conflict without Feeling it you're gonna be so if I taught if I had somebody gave me 15 lessons on conflict Here find some time outside of math outside of english outside of socials And teach these 15 lessons on conflict as opposed to if I just taught them english socials math science and let them handle conflict collaboration while they're working and just stop them every now and then to take some deep breaths and remind them to take some deep breaths because right now your emotions are in charge, not your thinking.
Let's get our emotions under control. Let's think so we can get back to work. I guarantee you. I know it's not I [00:41:00] guarantee you I know You're going to have kids academically perform this much more and understand conflict this much more than whether or not you just threw out a Program at them where they had to watch a video and talk to you about conflict Do you know what I mean?
and that's the way I use the play as the way program and I use another program called zones of regulation because They teach kids how to handle their feelings Because you've elicited those feelings, you've created a little bit of stress for them. It's now you need to take some deep breath and you do it through games.
you can do it in class, you can do it wherever. So when they're in the middle of some collaborating around social studies and whatnot, you can say,hey, remember how to breathe and calm yourself down. Because if you don't, your emotions are going to make you do something that's the wrong thing.
And they'll be right, I need to show some strength, mental strength. And I need to do the right thing, so I'm going to take some deep breaths, and let's get at this. And that's where that common view comes together with teachers and students. So that way everybody understands that if your emotions are in control, guess what?
It's gonna be [00:42:00] less conflict, more collaboration, more critical thinking, more creative thinking. And that's why it has to be, and I use the word, embedded. It has to be embedded in what you do. When you add it on to teachers, they're gonna give you the old Italian, teachers don't need more things added on to their plate.
They need things embedded into everything that they do, right? And that's what I do at these, at schools that I go into is I teach them how to embed this social emotional well being piece into their daily activities, so it's seamless. It's not an add on, right? And then of course, I support it. I make sure that I'm the one leading the charge, teaching kids how to self soothe and breathe, and that's why, part of the reason why I wrote this book, and I created another book on breathing strategies to supplement it, right?
Shawn Buttner: Right on.yeah, no, that's great. Shifting gears now a little bit, how has writing this book transformed your life? have, so how, maybe could you talk about, I know you're really passionate about [00:43:00] the subject, it's coming through in the conversation, so I'm sure you had the idea, you wrote the book, how have things changed for you or the schools or the world that you operate in since writing the book?
Leroy Slanzi: Yeah,I'm definitely having a lot more conversations like the one like I can you know, Shawn sitting here talking to you I can see your eyes lighting up like I can feel it and And that's what's happening more so is that Because I've written this book and, it's gained some notoriety and, people know about it.
I'm having a lot more conversations with parents. I'm having a lot more conversations with kids, with teachers, and engaging them in conversations because what it's done, this book, if you just look at here, I'm going to just bring, if you don't mind here, if you look on here, you see the apple that's on here?
I don't know if you can see it, but you can see it's cracking, right? And that apple is symbolic from back in the 50s when you used to bring the teacher an apple, right? And I think what's created the biggest change for me is that this cover [00:44:00] itself, the emotional schools, it's validating teachers and parents feelings about just how emotional The school system has become for them, for teachers and for parents cause they're struggling and teachers are struggling.
And what it's done is it's opened up more dialogue. It's opened some even at I don't work for the school district anymore, there's people within the school district and leadership positions are like, man, Okay, I get it. I bought your book. I understand. And so what I'm finding in terms of what it's done for me personally and professionally, it's allowed me to have conversations like this, even with my dad who's a 78 year old Italian man who, dropped out of school in grade eight and and the conversations are fantastic.
And even yesterday I am trying to get outta work and it, and one of my special education assistants wouldn't leave 'cause she wanted to talk about trauma and . Why is it important to teach kids to cope? And so I'm having wonderful conversations and wonderful, really deep, conversations about things that are [00:45:00] meaningful.
And it feels great, like it's just, like I feel like it's making a difference and I really hopefully, by going on these podcasts and stuff, more people will, get great. I do want to sell the book, but I want school teachers, school leaders, parents, districts, state, the state education departments and provincial education departments, to buy this and understand what it means to embed it all together and do it the right way because I would love to see before I, kick the bucket down the road for my grandkids to be in a better spot.
I, my kids are young, so they, teenagers, they better not be thinking of having kids right now, that's for sure. But down the road, down the road,I, it's just, it's a wonderful feeling right now. it's causing a real wonderful change, I think, slowly, but hopefully it'll get bigger.
Shawn Buttner: we definitely need more voices like this out here talking about schools. Cause I, I could say from in the States, it's a huge problem that I don't feel like [00:46:00] other, my fellow citizens are addressing enough of this crisis of teachers, this crisis of education and, social, emotional stuff, I think is a huge part of the way to help.
there's some structural things that I think are beyond the scope of this conversation, at least to talk through, but, just as a casual observer of, And quote the system. But, yeah, I'm really grateful you're doing this work and, making a difference. with that said, if people want to get the book, should they just go to your website or go to leroyslancy.
Leroy Slanzi: com, or, you can go on to amazon. com. I think it's also on Barnes and Noble. it's on a lot of, different platforms, everywhere. So yeah, if you're in the United States, you can order it right from my website. You can go to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Apple, I don't know, like everywhere. And in Canada, go to LeroySlanzy.
com, go to Amazon. ca. I'd prefer if people went to LeroySlanzy. com because then I'm [00:47:00] not paying royalties to Amazon and the big corporations out there that like to take our money. That's a whole different topic, isn't it? It is.yeah. Okay. and, also too, if people are interested, because I do workshops and I do keynote speaking, that's also on LeroySlanzy.
com, but also that Play Is The Way program,I'm the one who runs that. I facilitate that. It's actually an Australian program. They use it on Australia and New Zealand. Okay. Because their education system and the behavior down there is Wow. They're having issues. and that's just WW play is the way ca and they can find that on there.
And yeah, I'm available. I'm, I would love to chat with people.
Shawn Buttner: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, I'll put that, I'll put your website and the plays the way and the show notes for the good folks. and then I love this conversation because. One, I love education. again, I think this is, this idea that you have is a step in the right direction for helping change [00:48:00] how things are going.
and again, we were talking about leadership, leading the way, role modeling, building relationships with people.really, I could sense it comes from a sense of really wanting to connect and empathize with people, which I think help, probably helps you in your day to day work very much, but that's coming off here too.
Leroy, thank you so much. What did you take away or love from our conversation before we head out?
Leroy Slanzi: You know what? just, I could see in your eyes, you had questions, and that's when you asked me what the difference it makes is pretty much everybody I talked to has gone to school. You went to elementary school, Shawn.
You went to high school. And I guarantee you, you remember some bad experiences, some good experiences in high school and elementary school. And so the topic is, it resonates with you because you've experienced it. I'm not talking about, I don't know, road construction or bridge building. I'm talking about something that you've done for 12 years of your life, [00:49:00] at least in high school and elementary.
And I don't know if you went to college or university, and that's What I love just looking at your face. It was like, oh, I want to talk about this because you're probably through this conversation Remembered some things for yourself about school and I saw it in your face, but am I right on that or yeah, definitely Cool.
Yeah,
Shawn Buttner: I'm just trying not to overthink about it and get caught in my head
Leroy Slanzi: it's all relative right because when we deal with Parents, when I deal with parents, a lot of times what they bring to the table when they come into my office, if they're upset about something, they're bringing their own high school experience in. If they were bullied or if they, had certain things happening to them, they, and particularly here in Canada where we, we put Indigenous people into residential schools and strip them of their language and you want to talk genocide and all of that, we can go into a whole different topic on that too.
But. You gotta think people are afraid to come [00:50:00] into schools because of their experiences, right? And so that's why this resonates with me is because I'm opening the door for parents who had good or bad experiences and teachers who are struggling andto validate what happened to us and to what's, and to validate what's happening right now for our kids and for teachers and that's what I loved about this conversation.
I could feel you coming there with me. Oh, definitely.
Shawn Buttner: Yeah.
Leroy Slanzi: Awesome.
Shawn Buttner: yeah, there's a thousand different ways we could probably go from here, but we're at the top of the hour. So Leroy, I just want to say, thank you so much for your knowledge, for your energy and passion for this topic. and check out his book in the show notes, folks, and we'll see you on the next episode of The Meaningful Revolution.
Leroy Slanzi: Right on, Shawn. And you know what? Let's follow up in about a year. Let's see where we're at, my friend. You got it. All right, man. Thanks a lot for having me. Take care, right? Yeah. Thank you. Take care. You bet. Take care.
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